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| From: | ucolfaq@greenend.org.uk |
| Newsgroups: | uk.comp.os.linux |
| Subject: | FAQ for uk.comp.os.linux |
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uk.comp.os.linux FAQ
--------------------
Last modified: $Date: 2002/11/22 21:21:47 $
Introduction
------------
This is the list of uk.comp.os.linux frequently asked questions, with
answers. It would be appreciated it if you read it before posting questions
to the newsgroup, and it is hoped that you will find it helpful.
If you have a question about that isn't answered here, then please do
consider posting it to the newsgroup; if you have a question that is
specifically about this FAQ itself, then please consider instead emailing
the maintainer at ucolfaq@greenend.org.uk.
This is not by any means a comprehensive guide to using Linux; it is
intended to cover Linux questions specific to the UK or to uk.comp.os.linux.
The Linux Documentation Project (http://www.tldp.org (Who's computer is this?) ) is the best place to
start for more general questions.
The most recent version of this FAQ can be found at
http://www.ucolfaq.lug.org.uk (Who's computer is this?)
Contents
--------
About The Newsgroup
[1] Where is the charter for this newsgroup?
[2] Can I advertize in this newsgroup?
How do I...
[3] How do I delete a file called -some_filename?
[4] How do I delete a file with spaces in its name?
Configuration Questions
[5] How much swap do I need?
Software Problems
[6] gcc or cc not found
[7] gcc can't find stdio.h
[7] g++ can't find iostream.h
[8] telnet/ssh/etc hang after connecting
Hardware Problems
[9] I get this error message: gcc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got
fatal signal 11
[10] Linux doesn't recognise all my RAM
[11] My modem doesn't work under Linux
Distributions, vendors, ...
[12] What Linux distribution should I use?
[13] Where can I buy Linux in the UK?
[14] Where can I buy a pre-installed Linux system in the UK?
[15] What Linux magazines are there in the UK?
[16] What Linux User Groups are there in the UK?
[17] What other UK Linux news and discussion forums are there?
Email and News
[18] What mail server should I use?
[19] What mail client and newsreader should I use?
Services
[20] How do I connect to <some UK ISP>
[21] Which Internet banks work with Linux?
Other
[22] What to include in a question
[23] Additional Information
Administrivia
[24] What questions belong in this FAQ?
[25] Acknowledgements
[26] Copying
The Answers
-----------
[1] Where is the charter for this newsgroup?
The charter can be found at http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.comp.os.linux.html. (Who's computer is this?)
[2] Can I advertize in this newsgroup?
At the time of writing the charter says:
Short (<20 lines) announcements of events and advertising from
manufacturers and resellers of Linux-related products (e.g.
distributions) in the UK are permitted. Advertising aimed at a
non-UK-specific audience is not permitted.
Many readers think more highly of vendors who participate normally and
mention their products or services in their .sig, rather than posting
out-and-out adverts.
Some vendors are listed below. Send details to ucolfaq@greenend.org.uk if
you want to be included.
[3] How do I delete a file called -some_filename?
If you want to delete a file with an initial "-", then it is necessary to
use a slightly special syntax to rm. There's two possible answers; one
possibility would be:
rm ./-some_filename
"./" just means "the current directory". Another possibility would be:
rm -- -some_filename
This works because any argument to rm that appears after the first "--" is
always treated as a filename, even if it looks like an option.
Some answers that people occasionally suggest will _not_ work. Examples of
these include:
rm "-some_filename" # does not work
rm '-some_filename' # does not work
rm \-some_filename # does not work
Why don't they work? When you type a command it is first processed by the
shell. This is responsible for handling quote characters such as " and \;
unfortunately once it has done so it throws away the information about which
characters were quoted and which were not before passing the command on to
the rm program itself. The shell does not know that rm will treat the dash
character specially; equally rm has no way to find out that the dash
character was quoted.
Here are a couple more nonworking examples:
rm ?some_filename # does not work
rm -i ?some_filename # does not work
Here the idea is to generate the "-" using the "match single character"
wildcard - but the information about how it was generated is not passed to
the rm program. The use of -i doesn't help either - the following dash still
looks like the start of an option string to rm.
The man page for GNU rm has this to say:
GNU rm, like every program that uses the getopt function
to parse its arguments, lets you use the -- option to
indicate that all following arguments are non-options. To
remove a file called `-f' in the current directory, you
could type either
rm -- -f
or
rm ./-f
The Unix rm program's use of a single `-' for this purpose
predates the development of the getopt standard syntax.
[4] How do I delete a file with spaces in its name?
If you have a file called, for example, "some filename", then possible
commands to delete it would be:
rm "some filename"
rm 'some filename'
rm some\ filename
A reasonable approach in bash is to type
rm some
...and then hit TAB to let the shell's file completion feature do the hard
work for you.
[5] How much swap do I need?
It depends on what you're doing. Historically a common rule of thumb was
"have twice as much swap as you have RAM". With Linux 2.4 it seems to be
more important to have at least this much; see
http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/kt20010126_104.html#2 (Who's computer is this?) for more details.
[6] gcc or cc not found
If you get this error message while trying to build something, it means you
haven't installed the compiler.
,-----------------------------------------------------.
|Distribution |Packages required |How to install |
+-------------+------------------+--------------------+
|Debian |gcc |apt-get install gcc |
| | | |
| | |(or use dselect) |
`-----------------------------------------------------'
For C++ development (if c++ or g++ can not be found) then the equivalent
answers are:
,-----------------------------------------------------.
|Distribution |Packages required |How to install |
+-------------+------------------+--------------------+
|Debian |g++ |apt-get install g++ |
| | | |
| | |(or use dselect) |
`-----------------------------------------------------'
There are gaps in these tables; if you know the answers, please send them by
email to ucolfaq@greenend.org.uk.
[7] gcc can't find stdio.h
As well as the compiler, you also need various support files to correctly
compile programs. These generally come in separate development packages,
though it can vary between distribution.
,-------------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Distribution |Packages required |How to install |
+---------------------+--------------------+------------------------------+
|Debian |libc6-dev |apt-get install libc6-dev |
| | | |
| | |(or use dselect) |
+---------------------+--------------------+------------------------------+
|Red Hat 6.* |glibc-devel-2.1.2-* |rpm -ivh glibc-devel-2.1.2-[*]|
| | | |
| | |or, to upgrade: |
| | | |
| | |rpm -Uvh glibc-devel-2.1.2-[*]|
+---------------------+--------------------+------------------------------+
|SuSE (before 7.1) |libc |use YaST |
+---------------------+--------------------+------------------------------+
|SuSE (7.1 and later) |glibc-devel |use YaST |
+---------------------+--------------------+------------------------------+
|Definite |glibc-devel |... |
`-------------------------------------------------------------------------'
There are gaps in this table; if you know the answers, please send them by
email to ucolfaq@greenend.org.uk.
For C++ development (for example, if iostream.h is missing), the equivalent
answers are:
,------------------------------------------------------------------.
|Distribution |Packages required |How to install |
+-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
|Debian |libstdc++2.10-dev |apt-get install libstdc++2.10-dev|
| | | |
| | |(or use dselect) |
+-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
|Red Hat 6.* |egcs-c++-1.1.2-* |rpm -ivh egcs-c++-1.1.2-[*] |
| | | |
| | |or, to upgrade: |
| | | |
| | |rpm -Uvh egcs-c++-1.1.2-[*] |
+-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
|SuSE |libgpp |use YaST |
+-------------+------------------+---------------------------------+
|Mandrake |libstdc++-devel |... |
`------------------------------------------------------------------'
There are gaps in this table; if you know the answers, please send them by
email to ucolfaq@greenend.org.uk.
[8] telnet/ssh/etc hang after connecting
The symptom here is that telnet, SSH or sometimes some other network program
connect to a remote host, but then hang for a small number of minutes before
giving you a login prompt (or similar). Usually this indicates that the
target host is unable to resolve the IP address of the source host into a
name; the problem is quite common on networks connected via dialup. There
are two possible solutions.
The quick and dirty answer is to make an entry for the source machine in the
/etc/hosts file on the target machine. If there are many machines involved,
however, then this won't scale very well; and it may be inappropriate if
there is already DNS for the local network. In these cases, DNS should be
set up (or fixed, if it is not working properly) to map the affected
addresses into appropriate names.
[9] I get this error message: gcc: Internal compiler error: program cc1 got
fatal signal 11
You probably have a hardware fault. Have a read of
http://www.BitWizard.nl/sig11/ (Who's computer is this?) ("The Sig11 FAQ") which provides lots of
information about this error message.
[10] Linux doesn't recognise all my RAM
If Linux is not recognising all the RAM you have in your computer, then you
may need to tell it explicitly how much you have with a kernel command-line
parameter. If you use LILO, then it should be sufficient to add a line such
as this to your lilo.conf:
append="mem=128M"
...replacing the number 128 with the actual amount of memory you have in
megabytes.
To check how much RAM Linux thinks you have, you can check the boot time
messages. You can do this without rebooting, e.g. with this command:
dmesg | grep \^Memory:
[11] My modem doesn't work under Linux
Perhaps you have a "winmodem", i.e. a modem which relies on (originally)
Windows-only driver software. There's a web page with more information about
these at http://www.idir.net/~gromitkc/winmodem.html. (Who's computer is this?) Originally these
modems would not work under Linux at all, but if you have a look at
http://www.linmodems.org (Who's computer is this?) then you may discover that there is some Linux
support available for yours after all; support is gradually improving.
[12] What Linux distribution should I use?
Opinions vary, as you might expect.
If you have a friend or colleague who is running Linux, find out what
distribution they are using, and consider using that one - or, if they
thought it was terrible, consider using anything but that.
Tim Haynes says: the perceived "orientation" of the various distributions is
that Debian (http://www.debian.org (Who's computer is this?) ) is for `die-hard hackers', while
Mandrake (http://www.linux-mandrake.com (Who's computer is this?) ) is suited more towards desktop
users. RedHat (http://www.redhat.com (Who's computer is this?) ) is still the most commonly encountered
distribution in the enterprise. Use whichever you find most suited to your
purpose; in this regard Debian is particularly strong on post-installation
upgradability.
David Damerell observes that Mandrake, SuSE (http://www.suse.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) ) and
Debian are often praised on UCOL.
Anthony Youngman says: SuSE is the "kitchen sink" distro :-) (although they
seem to have blotted their copybook with Personal 7.0)
Ted Wager recommends the Debian-derived Libranet distribution
(http://www.libranet.com (Who's computer is this?) ).
Ultimately though - choose one that suit you and the tasks you intend to use
Linux for. If you are uncertain, try several, particularly if you can get
hold of them cheaply or for nothing (often they can be freely downloaded
from the net, or have any number of machines installed of a single media set
perfectly legally).
At http://www.linuxhq.com/dist.html (Who's computer is this?) there is a list of Linux distributions.
[13] Where can I buy Linux in the UK?
http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) - the Linux Emporium
http://www.definitelinux.net (Who's computer is this?) - Definite Software
http://www.eridani.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) - Eridani Star System
http://www.cheeplinux.com (Who's computer is this?) - Cheep Linux
http://www.crazypenguin.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) - Crazy Penguin
http://www.smb-computing.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) - SMB Computing Ltd
http://www.yourlinux.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) - YourLinux
http://www.maxtux.co.uk/ (Who's computer is this?) - Maxtux
Boxed versions of some of the major distributions have at various times been
spotted in Borders, Virgin, Electronics Boutique, Pc World and Waterstones.
...
UK-serving Linux vendors - if you would like to be added here, or have your
entry modified, then send mail to ucolfaq@greenend.org.uk including your
name and a URL.
[14] Where can I buy a pre-installed Linux system in the UK?
http://www.entora.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) supply pre-installed Linux systems to "the business
market rather that the home user, although all enquiries are welcome."
http://www.principia-systems.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) particularly serve the home, desktop and
educational markets, pre-installing Red Hat.
http://www.dnuk.com (Who's computer is this?) specialise in the design, manufacture and supply of
Linux systems (desktops, workstations, servers, notebooks and storage).
...
UK-serving Linux hardware vendors - if you would like to be added here, or
have your entry modified, then send mail to ucolfaq@greenend.org.uk
including your name and a URL.
[15] What Linux magazines are there in the UK?
Linux Format (http://www.linuxformat.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) ) has a mix of news, reviews, help
and tutorials. Garry Knight suggests that it seems pitched more towards the
beginner. Linux Format is £4.99.
Dave Hodder says:
Linux Magazine UK (http://www.linux-magazine.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) ) is a good all-rounder,
covering both beginner/intermediate subjects ("What are file permissions?")
plus more advanced topics ("How does RAID work?"). It is published by Linux
New Media, who have been involved with Linux magazines in Germany since the
mid-1990s. Linux Magazine is £4.99.
Linux User (http://www.linuxuser.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) ) is geared towards IT in the
corporate world. It has excellent editorial content, and a good balance of
both beginner and intermediate articles. Unlike Linux Format and Linux
Magazine UK, it's not available from high-street newsagents; instead it's
available via mail order (see their web site for more details). They
presently have an offer to send you a free issue simply by filling in your
details on their web site. At the time of writing, it cost £45.00 for 12
issues.
Although not Linux-specific, many uk.comp.os.linux subscribers read PC Plus
(http://www.pcplus.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) ). Most issues have good Linux tutorials, and the
software with the DVD-ROM edition can also prove to be very tempting. PC
Plus is £4.99.
Alternatively, if you are unhappy with the current crop of UK magazines,
there's no reason why you can't take out an overseas subscription with a
non-UK magazine. One such publication would be the highly respected Linux
Journal (http://www.linuxjournal.com (Who's computer is this?) ).
Garry Knight mentions the US Linux Magazine (http://www.linux-mag.com (Who's computer is this?) ), and
says it tends to focus on the more technical type of article and seems to be
aimed at company sysadmins, but still carries the occasional article aimed
at beginners.
Mark Sumner mentions the existence of Unix and Linux columns in Personal
Computer World (http://www.pcw.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) ) and Computer Shopper
(http://www.computershopper.co.uk (Who's computer is this?) ).
Dave Stanton notes that Micro Mart (http://www.micromart.co.uk/ (Who's computer is this?) ) has a
regular Linux column.
[16] What Linux User Groups are there in the UK?
Have a look at http://www.lug.org.uk (Who's computer is this?) and
http://www.linux.org.uk/UKLinks.html. (Who's computer is this?) The UK UNIX User Group at
http://www.ukuug.org (Who's computer is this?) is also worth a look, though it is not Linux-specific.
[17] What other UK Linux news and discussion forums are there?
The UK Linux Users Groups maintain a bunch of mailing lists, some of them
concerning particular distributions, an IRC server and various other
resources; see http://www.lug.org.uk (Who's computer is this?) for more details.
http://www.linux.org.uk (Who's computer is this?) has a round-up of Linux-related news, among other
things.
[18] What mail server should I use?
Opinions vary. Exim (http://www.exim.org (Who's computer is this?) ), Postfix (http://www.postfix.org (Who's computer is this?) ),
Qmail (http://www.qmail.org (Who's computer is this?) ) and Sendmail (http://www.sendmail.org (Who's computer is this?) ) all have
devout followers. Most Linux distributions include one or more of them.
In some cases it may not be appropriate to run a local mail server at all.
If your application software can send mail by SMTP to some other SMTP server
then you can achieve this state by installing no mail server at all. However
if you want to not run a local mail server, but also have applications that
require a local mail server to be able to send mail, something like sSMTP
might be the answer. Debian and Red Hat at least included packaged versions
of this.
Note that mail servers are sometimes called Mail Transport Agents, or MTAs.
[19] What mail client and newsreader should I use?
Opinions vary. There are surely too many to list here; most Linux
distributions include several. Try a few and see which you like. Some
programs are capable of functioning both as a mail client and a newsreader;
opinions vary on whether this is a good thing.
Note that mail clients are sometimes called Mail User Agents, or MUAs.
[20] How do I connect to <some UK ISP>
Almost all UK ISPs do actually work with Linux, though they often neglect to
mention this and may even claim it's not supported or won't work. An
important exception is AOL, which currently won't work with Linux.
Tony Callear has a FAQ about connecting to BT Openworld with Linux,
available at http://www.linuxfaq.btinternet.co.uk. (Who's computer is this?)
uklinux.net include dialup settings help at http://www.uklinux.net/support/. (Who's computer is this?)
At http://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~mjg59/ntlworld/ (Who's computer is this?) is a page by Matthew
Garrett regarding connecting to NTLWorld under Linux.
There is a separate uk.comp.os.linux ISP FAQ at
http://www.sweeney.demon.co.uk/ISP_FAQ.htm. (Who's computer is this?)
At http://axion.physics.ubc.ca/ppp-linux.html (Who's computer is this?) can be found a fairly detailed
howto by Bill Unruh entitled "How to hook up PPP in Linux".
AOL doesn't natively work with Linux, but
http://www.pengaol.ipfrance.net/eng/ (Who's computer is this?) apparently allows Linux users to
connect via AOL.
Cable modem users will find a wealth of information at
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/. (Who's computer is this?)
Note that the common practice of looking up the name servers for an ISP's
domain name is _not_ a good way to determine the name servers to put in
resolv.conf. It might work, but it is not guaranteed to. You need to find
out the proper name server(s) to use some other way, or run your own.
...
[21] Which Internet banks work with Linux?
Some Internet banking services are reported to work with Linux:
,---------------------------------------------------------------.
|Bank |Notes |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Abbey National |Reported to work with Netscape 4.78, |
| |but javascript problems with Mozilla |
| |0.9.4 and Konqueror 2.2.1 |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Bank of Scotland |http://www.bankofscotland.co.uk is |
| |reported to work with Netscape, |
| |Galeon/Mozilla and Opera. Requires |
| |Javascript. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Barclays |Reported to make statement available |
| |in CSV. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Cahoot |http://www.cahoot.co.uk is reported |
| |to work with Mozilla and w3m. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Co-operative Bank |Java required |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Egg |Works with w3m (and probably |
| |therefore with everything) |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|First Direct |http://www.first-direct.com/homeandaway|
| |reported to work with Netscape. |
| |Javascript required. Reportedly does |
| |not work with Mozilla. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Halifax |Reported difficulties printing |
| |statements; reportedly works with |
| |Netscape but not Opera. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|HSBC |Javascript required; reported to |
| |work with Mozilla and Galeon. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Lloyds TSB |Reported to work with Netscape, |
| |Mozilla, Galeon and Konqueror (at |
| |least 2.2.1) |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Nationwide |Javascript required; some problems |
| |reported with Netscape 3.x |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Natwest |http://www.nwolb.com reported to |
| |work under Netscape; reported to |
| |work with Galeon if you set the |
| |user-agent string to match Netscape. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Royal Bank of Scotland |http://www.rbsdigital.com is |
| |reported to work with Netscape and |
| |Konqueror. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Smile |Javascript required. Reported to |
| |work with Mozilla and Netscape 4.78, |
| |but not with Konqueror 2.2.1. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Ulster Bank |May work under Linux, Java and |
| |Javascript required. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Virgin One |Reported to work with Mozilla and |
| |Netscape. You may need to re-enable |
| |popup windows in Mozilla. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------+
|Alliance & Leicester |Mozilla, Konqueror 3, Galeon |
| |reported to work. Javascript |
| |required. |
`---------------------------------------------------------------'
("Netscape" above usually refers to Netscape 4 and maybe below. Presumably
things will become confusing when Netscape 6 becomes widespread, as it is a
very different product to v4 and earlier.)
James Harrison suggests this command to configure Galeon to issue a
user-agent string matching Netscape:
gconftool -s /apps/galeon/Advanced/Network/user_agent --type=string "Mozilla/4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.18 i686)"
To restore it to its default:
gconftool -s /apps/galeon/Advanced/Network/user_agent --type=string default
[22] What to include in a question
When asking a question on uk.comp.os.linux, it often helps to include a
number of pieces of information in your initial posting, including the name
and version of the distribution you are using; what kernel you are running;
the names and versions of any relevant pieces of software; details of any
hardware that is relevant to the question.
When checking versions, it's also worth checking if there is a later version
of the same software available; it might fix whatever problem you are
having. Also, look in release notes, bug databases etc. to see if your
problem is mentioned.
In some cases it is also helpful to include a cut and paste of commands you
typed and the output you got; for example, it is much easier to tell what is
going wrong if you include a list of error messages from a compiler than if
you just report that "it didn't work".
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html (Who's computer is this?) - "How To Ask Questions
The Smart Way" - offers further useful suggestions.
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html (Who's computer is this?) - "How to Report Bugs
Effectively" - also has plenty of relevant advice.
[23] Additional Information
http://www.linuxdoc.org (Who's computer is this?) - the Linux Documentation Project
http://www.linux.org/docs/ (Who's computer is this?) - Linux documentation at linux.org
http://www.linux.org.uk (Who's computer is this?) - Alan Cox's Linux site
http://www.freshmeat.net (Who's computer is this?) - an index of free software
[24] What questions belong in this FAQ?
The intent of this document is to be a useful resource for the readership of
uk.comp.os.linux; but equally it's not intended to duplicate large amounts
of information already available.
The following categories of question usually be suitable for inclusion:
* Linux questions that are very frequently asked, even if they are well
answered elsewhere
* Linux questions that are not adequately answered elsewhere
* Linux questions that tend to be badly answered on the newsgroup when they
are asked
* Linux questions that are somehow specific to the UK
* Questions that are somehow specific to uk.comp.os.linux
Categories of questions that would usually not be suitable include:
* Linux questions that are adequately answered elsewhere (except for the
first category above)
* Non-Linux questions (except for the last category above)
These are guidelines, not hard and fast rules; contributors and the
maintainer are expected to apply common sense.
[25] Acknowledgements
Thanks are due to: Dave Hodder, Kevin Taylor, Tim Haynes, David Damerell,
Colin Brough, Frank Johnson, Darren Wyn Rees, John Winters, Andrew McDonald,
Dan Glover, Russell Marks, Anthony W. Youngman, Garry Knight, Mark Sumner,
Chris Vine, Ian Campbell, Mark Lewis, Ian Jackson, Richard Corfield, Gary
Beldon, Jim Hague, Chris Croughton, Malcolm Wallace, Chris Butler, Julie
Brandon, Alan Fitch, Jonathan McDowell, Frances Blomely, Michael "Soruk"
McConnell, Rob Bryant, Mike Lincoln, Alex Heney, Mike Newman, David Cowie,
Rob Clarke, Mat Grove, Duncan Dewar, Tony Houghton, Andrew Clayton, Neil
Ellwood, Keith Refson, Owain McGuire, Ted Wager, AJ MacLeod, Mark Scott,
Will Stephenson, Ian Bell, James Harrison, Dave Pearson, Hil Snaden, Raj
Rijhwani, Phil Dodd, Craig Butcher, Imran, Tony Callear, Dave Stanton, Keith
Burton, David Peretta, Nick Hill, and anyone I've forgotten.
[26] Copying
This document is Copyright © 2000, 2001, 2002 Richard Kettlewell and the
contributors. Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this
document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.1
or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation; with no
Invariant Sections, no Front-Cover Texts, and with the Back-Cover Texts
being the contents of the "[27] Back Cover" section. A copy of the GNU Free
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[27] Back Cover
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