"Kathyjb819" <kathyjb819@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020724151633.28953.00000624@mb-fm.aol.com...


From: jxc35@spamgut.psu.edu
Subject: Dumpster Diver FAQ
Date: 1997/07/25
Message-ID: <jxc35.2208.33D80B48@spamgut.psu.edu>
Organization: CAC
Newsgroup: alt.dumpster




DUMPSTER-DIVING FAQ
ver 1.7

This is intended as a guide for people interested in getting neat, cool,
and
absolutely FREE stuff from the urban waste stream.

<comments and suggestions welcomed. Drop a line to Suitcase
(jxc35@psu.edu).>

How do I start diving dumpsters?

Start looking in them. It is as simple as that. Keep an eye out for
anything that you could use, and take it.

Do you actually get in the dumpster to dig something out, or is most of

the good stuff on the outside?

Depends on the dumpster. Most residential apartment dumpsters are not worth
that level of investigation. Some dumpsters are so large that it is
necessary
to climb on in. Most are smaller or have sliding doors, and most dumpster
diving can be accomplished by leaning in. Most of the good stuff (except
for
furniture) is in the dumpster, however.

What should I do to prepare for dumpster diving?

1. Wear sturdy shoes and take along heavy gloves. There's a lot of
nasty stuff in some of those dumpsters - we often see broken,
obviously used syringes! Getting stabbed with one of those would be a
Bad Thing. Broken glass is also very common.

2. Have recent tetanus and Hepatitis B shots. Better safe than sorry.
They're available cheaply or free at most public health depts.

What sort of gloves are best? Rubber? Cotton Work Gloves? Both?

Personal preference. I only use gloves, myself, when it is cold. I prefer
warm, lined leather gloves (heavily oiled to protect against water), myself.

If you are worried about glass or toxic liquid then perhaps a rubber-cloth
combination would be better. It has been suggested that one of the
space-age
kevlar gloves (yea, same material as bullet-proof vests) would be superior.

What sort of shoes are best?

Depends on what one is diving for. Someone diving for construction lumber
would be well advised to wear very sturdy boots, perhaps with steel shanks,
as a guard against rusty nails. Don't wear anything that would be damaged
by
getting dirty, of course.

What kinds of tools are useful in dumpster diving?

Many people use some kind of "diving stick", with additions to a sturdy
stick
that allows one to extend one's reach.

One person reports:
I have developed three tools for use in dumpsters. All are long white
curtain rods modified. One I hammered the tip into a tapered right angle.
I can hook this into plastic and aluminum refundables that I otherwise
could not reach.
A second is longer and heavier with a wider and unaltered right angle
at the end. I can pull items toward me and cradle 2-liter bottles and food
items close enough to pull out.
A third is one I fixed a nine inch nail into by hammering the softer
rod metal around it to steady it. I have filed the tip of the nail so I
can poke into plastic and pull back. This is the least effective.

Do you go at night with flashlights?

Anybody that dumpsters much keeps a strong, sturdy flashlight with them or
in
their car at all times. Often (especially if one is diving commercial
dumpsters and is scared of getting hassled by store managers) one wants to
dive after dark.

One of the best tools for regular dumpster divers is one of those
flashlights
that straps on to the head, leaving both hands free. This has significant
advantage, especially when pulling heavy objects out or around.

I don't have a truck, just a car. Will it suffice?

I dumpstered (and paid for substantially no food for three years) with just
a
bike. I did the residential suburbia curbside from atop a bike for three
years before that. While a truck or van helps in hauling larger items like
furniture and large appliances, a lot can be done even with a bike (and a
sack
with a strap to carry over one shoulder) or small car.

Is dumpstering from foot advisable?

First of all, it is even easier to dumpster from a bike (be sure to spring
for the racks on the back, as one can strap down a box and double ones
capacity) and get a sack with a shoulder strap.

Where are some good places to dive?

There are three basic areas that are good to dive: Residential dumpsters,
Residential non-dumpsters, and commercial dumpsters.

The best commercial dumpsters are definitely grocery stores. Other good
possibilities are drug stores, book stores, and music stores.

My friend and I were diving a Fraternity dumpster and didn't find much

besides beer bottles. They must drink a lot.

In a word, YES. You learned a valuable lesson. Fraternities are lousy
places
to dive, and one is taking one's life and limb in hand to dive there because
they tend to be not only drunks but violent drunks. Frats are large,
extended
families and they tend to give things away amongst themselves instead of
throwing out stuff. Stay away from them.

I love to hear about the big wins but what about all the little losses

What percentage of diving expeditions turn up something usable?

One likes to talk about the big wins, but understand that they stand out
because they are infrequent. Big finds are commonly residential in nature,
and likely not predictable.

Odds need to be grouped in three general areas: Residential piles on "off
season", residential piles on "on season", and commercial dumpsters.

What do you mean by "season".

One note about residential "season"s. The season may well be non-existent
in
certain areas. A season is a time when the mobility of a large pourtion of
the population increases drastically. This occurs mainly in college towns
around the end of semesters. It can also occur in areas (also often college
towns) when the majority of the leases come due at the same time.
"on season" for college towns is usually the first two weeks of August and

the week before each graduation.

When are the best times of the year to go DD?

[from Patrick (hkonline@idsonline.com)]

It all depends on the type of dumpster. For commercial dumpsters,
the day of a special event (Christmas, Easter, Graduation, etc.) and the day
after are the best times to go.
For residentials, at the end of each month (I'm sure u all know
that [I think he means "trash day" (ed)]). Also, if you see a for sale
sign, or a sold sign, good stuff will be arriving soon, so keep an eye
out...
For industrial, after a sale, holidays (sometimes), don't know much
about industrials. I've only been to one once, and the find I made there
was the remnants of someone's partially successful yard sale.
I feel it is worth mentioning that on holidays, you can get a lot
from department stores and other stores, especially bakeries. On Christmas
Day 1996, my mom (41) and I (15) went to a wonderbread store, and we found
around $300 in bread, doughnuts, muffins, hohos, twinkies, etc. This is
especially noteworthy considering we didn't get very much, compared to what
we could have gotten. There was a big metal box, measuring about 20' by 6'
by 6'. It was FULL of baked goods, all fine. The reason they were thrown
out was they all had Santa's picture on them. After all, who wants Santa's
twinkies the day after Christmas? (This was over five months ago, and a
family of six has still not finished them all. Sure, they're way past their
expiration dates, but those things have enough preservatives in them that
they practically glow in the dark.) Also, the day of graduation last school
year, my family went to a drug store. My mom and I went to the back of the
store, and found about $30 worth in mugs, T-shirts, cards, etc.

Will Winter be any good for diving?

It is colder, so good, waterproof and warm gloves are an important winter
diving accessory. Some fruits and vegetables tend to suffer from freezing.
Snow can slow down investigation of a dumpster's contents, as well.

Also, I guess trash day is on different days for different neighborhoods?

It is obvious which days it is. Get to know your neighborhoods. You can
call the refuse removal service or town hall, as well, to find out which
days
for which areas is refuse pickup. Don't tell them what you will use the
info
for, of course.

Which are the best places to dive residential trash?

High mobility is greatly valued for residential urban salvage. The big
piles
that are valued occure when someone is moving and the question comes down to
"do we pack it or trash it?".

Some areas have consistent high mobility. The best example of this is areas
with high active-duty military population. The military moves on average
every three years and generally has a weight limit when they do. [DO NOT
attempt to dive on a military base!!!!!]

How can you tell which residential waste pile is worth a second look?

. Keep one's eye peeled for any furniture or any pile that is 2X or larger
than all the other piles on curbside. Once one finds a good pile,
methodically take it apart (and stay neat: transfer from one box to
another,
or one bag to another; as making a mess will be a crime far more likely to
be prosecuted than taking the trash) and separate the "wheat" from the
"chaff".

Is it worth the time to tear into residential (and apartment) garbage

bags in search of the goodies?

After a bit of practice one gets to be able to tell which bags are worth
ripping open (if this is a dumpster, ripping open a bag and spreading out
the
goodies is acceptable since the mess is contained in the dumpster; if what
is
being investigated is a curbside residential pile then one should avoid
making
any mess and be sure to clean up anything that is spilled out of bags) and
which ones are full of rotting garbage and kitty litter.

I have often found many nice things tied up in trash bags. It is especially
nice when the person throwing the stuff out has segregated the good stuff
from
the garbage. I can tell if something is worth opening, usually, with a poke
or
a quick heft. Its hard to describe, exactly, what one is looking for to make
the decision, which means that one has to learn by practicing. That means
probably opening a bunch of nasty bags in acquiring the habit (and might be
worth getting a pair of rubber gloves until one is better at quick
determinations).

What probabilities exist for on-season times?

Probabilities range from 20% - 60% of getting something good PER DUMPSTER
and
near 10% of getting a major haul PER DUMPSTER. The only reason the odds are
so poor are because the diving competition is stiff during this time [the
odds
would be 100% and near 40% if that weren't the case].

What probabilities exist for off-season times?

Probabilities range from 4% - 6% of getting something good PER DUMPSTER and
around 1% of getting a major haul PER DUMPSTER. One can increase the
liklihood of getting something on a run by checking lots of dumpsters.

You talk about dumpsters. Are there any other places one can find good

stuff? What are the probabilities there?

Residential non-dumpster [single-family housing] areas have low
probabilities
PER HOUSE, but can be canvassed quickly by driving around the night before
scheduled trash pick-up and looking for abnormally large amounts of waste.

What about commercial dumpsters?

Commercial dumpsters can be rated by type of business. My best experiences
are with grocery stores, with some experience with other businesses.

Bookstores (they tear off covers of unsold books and magazines and then
report them as "damaged," which gives them a tax break)

Libraries (they throw out their discards, sometimes, and also books donated
to them that they can't use or sell)

Drugstores (toys, seeds in season, candy, chips, odds & ends)

Grocery stores (see above -- you can get produce, cheese, pastry, all kinds
of
stuff)

Bakeries (there are two we try to hit regularly; one throws out its unsold
stuff]on Sat. night, the other one throws out stuff daily, it seems).

Construction sites are really good for "scrap lumber". Be sure to ask
permission to take any of the "waste", as construction sites tend to have
valuable building supplies around as well and tend to prosecute people
perceived to be thieves.

How likely is it to find anything behind a grocery store?

Grocery store dumpsters yield at least something at a near 100% probability,
and stuff in the box-loads at better than 70%. WHAT you get is usually some
combiniation of baked goods, fresh vegetables, and dairy products, but there
is always around a 5% chance of getting a pile of some non-perishable
goodie.

When it comes to diving behind grocery stores, which ones are the best

to
look behind? I wondered if I would have better chances with a smaller store
rather than one of those major food chains. Does anyone have any experience
in
this area?

Look at least once behind all grocery stores. If they employ compactor
technology (no obvious dumpster, but a really big box connected to the
store)
then give them up. If the dumpsters are locked, give them up.

It seems that food in a dumpster is probably bad. How can I tell the

food
is good? By the look? Smell?!

It is usually pretty obvious when vegetables go bad. When they do go bad,
it
is pretty easy to trim away the rotten parts and still get edible remains.
I
consider anything that "trims" less than 20% to be a good find.

Baked goods are usually all right until they go moldy on you. Cheese in
blocks is all right even after molding: cut away the mold.

Yogurt is almost always good: the active yogurt cultures keep other bacteria
and yeast from growing. Other dairy products can be tricky, but it is
usually
easy to tell when they go bad.

Meat is not worth getting most of the time: when it goes it goes all over,
and the meat is no good even after cooking. I never get meat from a
dumpster.

Use your common sense, and all five senses. If something looks, feels, or
smells bad, then throw it away or don't take it. Everything is free anyway,
so throwing something away doesn't cost much!

Throw away swollen or leaking cans, of course.

Rules:
1. Never eat dumpster-dived meat. Don't bother to bring it home, not even
for a pet. It's too risky.
2. Never eat anything with a torn wrapper, covering, etc.
3. Wash your hands thoroughly before eating anything.
4. Wash any produce thoroughly, too.
5. IMO, the best times for diving are just after dawn and after the store
closes. The worst time is mid-day, when trucks arrive to restock the
store.

What about a drug store?

Drug stores only yield significant piles around 5% of the time, but when
they
do, it is usually one of those "great finds" stories. Like the time I found
250+ pounds of Russel-Stovers assorted boxed candies, or the time I found
about thirty bottles of assorted OTC drugs.

Are book stores good targets?

Book stores usually have some kind of books or magazines in them, but,
depending how picky your reading tastes are you may not be interested. The
best time to hit for magazines is the very end of the month, of course, as
room has to be made for the new month's set.

What about other retail dumpsters?

WalMart has an open dumpster [other than the compactor I already mentioned]
that seems to always have old garden supplies (last time I looked it had
around three tons of potting soil in it) but I have no interest in that
stuff.

By the way, building site dumpsters (especially the rent-a-dumpsters
at remodeling projects) can be gold mines for building materials.
"Sweat equity" home renovations are especially good because many
people will throw out perfectly good fixtures etc. because they either
don't know it's worth something or don't want to go to the bother of
selling it. Scrap wiring (especially copper), if you have quite a bit,
can be worth $$ at scrap metal dealers.

Why do so many stores throw out stuff that's perfectly fine?

[from Patrick (hkonline@idsonline.com)]

The FDA is Very strict about what can be sold and what can't. They
do this because if someone ate something that had gone bad, the FDA would
be punished. State laws are sometimes equally strict. However, don't be
alarmed. This stuff is almost always fine. For example, I had an apple
turnover the other day, and the expiration was ten days before. Good for
dumpster divers, bad for places like Wonderbread, Safeway, Giant, etc.

I looked behind my local grocery store and I couldn't find a dumpster.

What gives?

Most likely you have a grocery store that uses a self-contained compactor
dumpster. These are the bane of dumpster divers everywhere, as they isolate
any waste from potential divers. There is nothing to do about compactors
except find another store.

Ive seen lots of old guys with three wheeled bikes hauling around

about 1000 cans. Are they effective competition?

The "old guys hauling around cans" are no competition. They tend to focus
on
aluminum to feed their alcohol habit, while passing up food, clothes, and
even
money!

What are the legalities of dumpster diving?

Technically it is theft. You are stealing that trash from whoever owns or
rents the dumpster (probably the store or apartment building). In addition
(even if you don't remove anything from the dumpster) just looking can be
chargeable as criminal mischief. Realistically you are in no trouble unless
1) the owner of the store presses charges [unlikely],
2) there are specific laws against dumpster diving in your community,
3) the dumpster is locked and you have to "break in" to get at the
goodies, or
4) there is a "no trespassing" sign up (increases likelihood of charges
getting pressed..

Curbside piles (public streets: Trash cans, piles etc.) are completely
legal. Once
your trash is at the curb it's fair game. Several provided cases in which
trash was
used as evidence to get a search warrant. They were quick to say there is a
fine
line between trespassing and not. Several told me that the rule to judge it
is if it
looks like it's out to be picked up as garbage, it's yours.. Remember that
if you
make a mess, you are breaking other laws that you can be charged for.
Besides,
people will become irate if you start leaving messes for them to clean up.

How can I avoid getting into trouble?

. CLEAN THE HECK UP AFTER YOURSELF! (Small side rant: I heard the
usual divers in our dumpster last night and thought nothing of it - we
have a lot of can/bottle and scrap-metal divers around here. When I
took the trash out this morning I nearly had a conniption fit. The
contents of our dumpster were strewn for fifteen-twenty feet around
said dumpster - trash bags opened and dumped out on the ground, picked
through and tossed everywhere. The management company was there,
discussing the possibility of a locking compactor dumpster. And
raising our rent to pay for it. *snarl*) Those evil locking compactor
dumpsters are there because of the sloppy divers who leave messes more
than because people are simply diving stuff.... so don't ruin it for
everyone else!

DON'T GO NEAR LOCKED DUMPSTERS
Since the owner has gone to all the trouble of locking the dumpster, he
clearly doesn't want anybody in them. The owner is far more likely to call
the police if the dumpster is locked.

[Some people consider locked dumpsters fair game. Here is what one person
offered as suggestion how to deal with some locked dumpsters.]

Locked dumpsters were no problem - in our area the domed dumpster covers
have two sliding ends, each lockable with two metal pins (one on each side)
and two clips
(ditto). The sliding end rides on two small wheels along the dumpster's
edge. It is best to hit a locked dumpster at night. I would quietly undo the
pins and the clips, slide the end open and peer inside and, if the dumpster
was worth it, dive in. The ope
of the dumpster (people are sleeping, remember?) and ALWAYS, ALWAYS TAKE
THE TIME TO LOCK THE DUMPSTER AFTER YOU ARE FINISHED DIVING, securing all
the pins and clips in place. And of course, never leave a mess on
the curb. If ya gonna dive, don't be a slob.

When is the best time to dive? Day / Night? Weekdays / Weekends?

It is best to dive after 5pm if you are worried about getting caught. Most
deliveries are during the day. If you are REALLY worried about getting
caught
(or you have been warned specifically already a few times) then consider
diving after the place closes. If the manager is not there, he cant press
charges, can he? The cost of putting a guard on the dumpster over night
just
to bust someone stealing their trash is just not worth it.

Any other Tips or Tricks...Esp. in dealing with Security Guards!

If you are interested in dealing with some area that is guarded, my advice
is
DONT! They are guarding the area for a reason. This is not a problem
unless
the dumpster is in a secure area. If so, then they WILL bust you for
trespassing. Not the case in a regular "behind the store" parking lot.

Dont throw anything INTO the dumpster. This is stealing resources (dumpster
space) that is usually much more valued than the stuff in the dumpster, by
the
store owner.

Can one find drugs in the dumpster?

Sure. I find (and leave) drugs in dumpsters all the time.

Remember that possession of prescription drugs (not in your name) is a
criminal offense. If you have only the non-scheduled drugs, then each drug
is
a misdemeanor (max 1 year in prison plus $1000 fine) offense. If you are
lucky/unlucky enough to have a scheduled drug, then each drug is a felony
(10+
years in prison plus BIG fine) offense.

Antibiotics are pretty commonly found. The only problem is that antibiotics
cant really be stockpiled. They have definite shelf lives, and loose
activity
over a relatively short time (a year or two, maybe). You can really do some
damage to yourself if you take weak or impotent antibiotics that end up not
curing the infection you are treating!

Other common non-scheduled drugs (antihistamines, pain killers, etc) can
also be
found OTC at no legal risk and at reasonable prices. I also find a lot of
OTC drugs in dumpsters. Sometimes I take those.

Weird, but possession of aspirin or ibuprofen that has been prescribed is a
misdemeanor, but possession of exactly the same drug OTC is not.

Almost always the drugs are in residential dumpsters. Only occasionally
have
I found OTC drugs in drugstore dumpsters.

AND NOW FOR SOME ESOTERIC STUFF

Does Dumpster Diving have it's patron Saint?

For those of Catholic persuasion, the patron Saint of Dumpster Diving is
most
likely St. Nicholas, patron Saint of Thieves [and forefather of Santa
Claus].

What about a patron Deity for those of us of a pagan persuasion?

The most likely candidate for patron goddess would be Diana (Goddess of the
Hunt) or (my personal favorite) Eris/Discordia (goddess of Chaos and
Discord).

What about a "power animal" for those of us with a Native American

leaning?

By discussion among those readers of alt.dumpster that saw fit to join the
discussion, the crow/rook/raven [they are similar animals, but the rook or
raven is bigger than the crow; they probably taste similar anyway] has been
decided to be most worthy of Dumpster Diving.

The Crow or Raven (I'm not sure which is which; I guess the raven is
bigger?),
among Northwestern Native Americans is credited with creating the world, as
a
mistake with a joke gone bad, and has been instrumental in a great many
legendary practical jokes ever since.

As a mundane beast the Crow or Raven is an intelligent and persistent
scavenger. Other mundane beasts that are commonly found diving dumpsters
and/or trash piles include racoons, skunks, and bears (not to mention dogs
and
cats).

I looked in a bunch of dumpsters last night, it was my first try....All I found
were a pair of pants....but the garbage smell was soooo unbearable they went
back in the dumpster!!>>>

Does anyone have any tips, how exactly do you look....do you visual? Do you
have to open bags and look in?

Kathy, here is an FAQ written by one of this newsgroups original posters.
Hope it helps.
T&T